Forum: Tools and Plant
Topic: Purchase or pay tax
started by: Forestboy1978

Posted by Forestboy1978 on 16 Jan. 2017,19:31
I need another vehicle... I'm going to have to pay a load of tax as I have 2 businesses both ticking over as a sole trader. New guy seems good but now quite often my little vivaro is used as well as my truck leaving me without a vehicle.

Need something that pulls 3.5 tons so a pick up is what I'm looking to get. I'm sorely tempted to just say "XXXX it" and get this < http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/classif....&page=2 >

and then pay no tax for like,, ever lol.. but with that money I could get a 3.5 ton trailer, digger, cheap wagon etc.. so I'm probably not going to do it but by god am I tempted..

Opinions always bloody appreciated :-)

Posted by dig dug dan on 16 Jan. 2017,20:34
first, dont even think about a ranger. Another forum I am on, the tree guys are all slating them, some have blown engines after 6 months, broken drivetrains, all sorts of problems, and by the sounds of it, ford are not sorting it.
one guy was assured he could tow 3.5tonnes, only to find the vin plate stating 2.3!
Best thing, lease a vehicle, its 100% tax deductable, and what you rather,pay the taxman, or have a decent vehicle??

Tough choice that one! :D

Posted by rxbren on 16 Jan. 2017,20:50
i have literally just picked up a couple of weeks ago a 2016 3.2 auto wildtrack with roller shutter, tow bar, tech pack and 240v socket in the rear its also the first pickup to ever get 5 star ncap rating

48k (with vat) is so much money for what is essentially just a few bolt ons fair enough it has rear diff lock (its an extra fairly cheap one but not many spec it) but far to much money the m sport version is cheaper but again still silly money you will get a facelift model at about a year old for just under half of the one in your link and will have a roller shutter (over a grand to buy) and a fitted towbar

youll still pay tax next year youll only be able to write off aia down to you personal allowance (unless you want to make a loss) then write the rest down at 18% for the next few years

only things to consider are you cant load any of the pickups to the hilt and pull 3.5t the ranger losses around 700kg of possible load nissan a bit less not sure on the dmax the l200 has the highest max permissable load it tows less but with it being the lightest truck you can have more payload on it but not heard many good reports and considering mitsubishi have halved the mileage (was 5yr 125k now 5yr 62.5k) on the warranty dont think they have much faith in the new engine plus the brochure in my local dealer lies/misses out information on the comparisons it makes between other pick ups.

in 3.2 auto with tech pack the ranger weighs in over 2.2t so technically doesnt count as a dual purpose vehicle as it over 2.04t so you have lower van speed limits on dual carrigeways and nation speed limit single lane a and b roads

seems all the pickups with getting bigger and safer are piling the kgs on so you have some versions that are under 2.04t and with bigger engines/more options push you over the threshold

and on the hilux front all you need to see is this < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoHbn8-ROiQ >

Posted by Forestboy1978 on 16 Jan. 2017,20:52
Ah, yeah, I don't have a mortgage btw so it's more of a consideration than it first appears.

I'll do some more research on the ranger. I do know a few guys with them though and they love them. Only complaints being ride being not so comfortable.

Posted by rxbren on 16 Jan. 2017,20:53
not seen any issues with the rangers the 4x2 dont have the 3.5t tow

as far as i know for leasing you can only claim the interest back as you will never own the vehicle same thing for hiring so you cant claim the full cost

Posted by rxbren on 16 Jan. 2017,20:54
look at the austrailian forums there on there with hundreds of thousands of k of no issues
Posted by Forestboy1978 on 16 Jan. 2017,21:26
Cheers for the info RX

Looking at lease options atm and I haven't got much time on it tonight but the lease hire rates per month alone, not including deposit seem to outstrip depreciation rate....

Not seeing it as value for money at first glance

Yeah that Toyo video was shocking....wow

Posted by dig dug dan on 16 Jan. 2017,21:38
Quote (rxbren @ 16 Jan. 2017,19:53)
not seen any issues with the rangers the 4x2 dont have the 3.5t tow

as far as i know for leasing you can only claim the interest back as you will never own the vehicle same thing for hiring so you cant claim the full cost

Nope. I lease purchase. Its 100%tax deductable. I buy mine for 2% of the value, keep it another year, then sell it for another
Posted by rxbren on 16 Jan. 2017,22:02
Lease purchase different sorry bud I thought lease hire
Posted by dig dug dan on 16 Jan. 2017,22:53
I have to do a confusing thing of selling it  to the lease company, then buying it back again, some sort of tax loophole. Done it for 20 odd years like that. Seems to work. Always have a new reliable truck, no repair bills and good resale value
Posted by Forestboy1978 on 16 Jan. 2017,22:58
Rx that's 40k including VAT not plus vat. I'd end up paying 34k
Posted by Forestboy1978 on 16 Jan. 2017,22:58
Plus it is damn sexy;-)
Posted by Forestboy1978 on 16 Jan. 2017,23:00
Quote (dig dug dan @ 16 Jan. 2017,21:53)
I have to do a confusing thing of selling it  to the lease company, then buying it back again, some sort of tax loophole. Done it for 20 odd years like that. Seems to work. Always have a new reliable truck, no repair bills and good resale value

Yeah I have no idea what you're on about but 2% per years sounds damn good.
Posted by rxbren on 16 Jan. 2017,23:38
still silly money for some bolt on mods and a matt black spray over considering (im guessing due to seats) its based on a limited with off road pack and sat nav extras its an additional 8.4k (inc vat) for derranged bolt ons than what it would cost new from ford

on looking closer its 6 months old and it is a limited model

Posted by Forestboy1978 on 16 Jan. 2017,23:45
yeah it's not for me. Too flashy really. I do like it though.

Thinking of tricked up defender instead. Dog will screw something too nice. Defender she can be thrown in the back. Not sure on it's towing capacity though. Think it should be fine but not sure yet

Posted by rxbren on 16 Jan. 2017,23:47
defenders are 3.5t even the 90 wheelbase although they are horrible to live with be prepared to have to drive with the window down sore knees from either banging on the window winder or the poor seating position that is awkward to keep using the heavy clutch pedal
Posted by Forestboy1978 on 17 Jan. 2017,08:30
http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201701161351379?onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&make=LAND%20ROVER&price-from=10000&sort=price-asc&model=DEFENDER%2090&advertising-location=at_cars&postcode=so456pa&radius=1500&page=11
Posted by rxbren on 17 Jan. 2017,10:06
Alot for a 12 year old motor for another 4k you could get a 2014 3.2 auto wildtrak 3.5t tow and with under 40k on the clock
Posted by Forestboy1978 on 17 Jan. 2017,11:57
Quote (rxbren @ 17 Jan. 2017,09:06)
Alot for a 12 year old motor for another 4k you could get a 2014 3.2 auto wildtrak 3.5t tow and with under 40k on the clock

Yeah I was thinking that but I do like them and I figure I can constantly modify it and even new engine is not the end of the world. Chasis obv needs to be mint though.
Posted by Forestboy1978 on 17 Jan. 2017,12:00
I could do with a double cab for the dog really also. Don't need/ want to be loading the back with aggregate or anything I have a van and a tipper and I'll have a tipper trailer. Not sure if the double cab classifies more as a car though and hence not so good regarding tax reduction
Posted by rxbren on 17 Jan. 2017,13:02
Double cab picks are commercial so vat back and £230 a year road tax they at treated as a van
Posted by Forestboy1978 on 17 Jan. 2017,17:49
Quote (rxbren @ 17 Jan. 2017,12:02)
Double cab picks are commercial so vat back and £230 a year road tax they at treated as a van

http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201610058443852?model=RANGER&sort=sponsored&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&make=FORD&postcode=so456pa&advertising-location=at_cars&minimum-badge-engine-size=3.0&transmission=Automatic&radius=1500&price-from=17000&page=4
Posted by rxbren on 17 Jan. 2017,19:41
I paid around that but mines 10 months old did consider going new at that price but I wanted the tech pack and a roller shutter (the shutter is easy to add not the tech pack) one other main  thing that kept me away from new was my local ford dealer wouldn't even entertain helping source a ranger saying if you want a new one it will be at least 4 months
Ford are helping keep the prices high as they have not flooded the market with them

I have a couple of niggles the reverse cam the guide lines don't quite work its not the biggest gripe with the cam its either that the number plate lights shine I to it when night vision being used or the fact that where its placed it gets dirty easily I've wiped it at least once a week the one i fitted on the l200 in the year plus it was on there never needed to

Posted by Forestboy1978 on 18 Jan. 2017,22:26
Holding fire on this... Had multiple quite major issues over last 24 hours. Walking a bit of a tight rope all of a sudden :-(
Posted by rxbren on 19 Jan. 2017,00:34
i know the feeling the start of this year is slow 4 jobs all pushed back with no start date . Wasnt planning on changing van so soon but the old one had issues where spending the money to put the big problem right and sorting other minor issues and mot advisories would have been more than the difference between selling as is and fully sorted
Posted by Forestboy1978 on 19 Jan. 2017,21:25
Yep, sorely tempted to knock it on the head and get some tickets and earn 150 per day and go home and forget about it. Although that's not exactly the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow either...

The trouble is domestic work is soo much damn emailing and correspondence etc. Really could do with finding some commercial contracts but dunno where to even begin

Put a quote in 3 days ago and almost didn't want to even go there price wise cos yeah it'll pay and it's work but one minor screw up and profit is gone and I'm working for nothing just wearing out tools and vehicles. Guy said he was mulling it over. Doesn't actually realise the deal is getting is damn good. Uncomfortably so from my point of view.

Posted by lemoncurd1702 on 21 Jan. 2017,08:52
Commercial work is fine if you're working for a local independent firm where you're working with and for the main man. Nationals are generally a pain, no ones accountable and the buck is passed around.

I agree domestics can be a pain and I'm fed up with quoting for tyre kickers. At least the money is there at the end of the job though, no waiting 30-60 days for a payment which doesn't match the invoice.
One of many New Years resolutions was to stop wasting my time with jobs that I don't really want. It's a difficult thing to do but you need to tell them "sorry mate it's not the sort of work I do" or it's to big or to small a job.
Bollocks I've failed twice this year already!  :D

Posted by bodgeitandscarper on 22 Jan. 2017,00:58
Vehicle tax is going to change in April and apparently some could be paying £2000 a year depending on emissions.
Posted by dig dug dan on 22 Jan. 2017,09:09
http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/arb-trucks/102350-ranger-dealer-woes.html


A good advert fo buying a ford ranger!

Posted by rxbren on 22 Jan. 2017,13:04
Tax rule is for new cars bought after some time in April

Had a look at that thread seems to be a few issues mostly buying something from Bristol street motors and there piss poor aftersales.

Unfortunately with vans (or cars) you either get a good one or a bad one sure the warranty on ford its 3 years / 60k, navaras is not much better, the new l200 has still got 5yrs but mileage has dropped from 125 to 62.5k think the dmax has the biggest warranty or maybe the new sayangyong

Like everything you only really hear about the bad things and a piss poor dealer will not help that

Posted by dig dug dan on 22 Jan. 2017,13:29
Nissan commercials now 5 years
That dealer wont be as bad as the one near me. One of our friends, who used to work high up in ford, told us that ours was the worst dealer in the country!

Posted by Dave_L on 22 Jan. 2017,19:54
I'd rather do 10 domestic job than one commercial job.
Posted by rxbren on 22 Jan. 2017,20:35
Not done much commercial have considered giving it another try but having to constantly chase for money is a pain and then keeping on top of multiple invoices for different sites. The pay was not as good as it should have been due ti being on price work and there always been an issue out of our hands mostly the idiot measuring up and organizing for the panels to be made and then effing it all up so wrong sizes bits missing etc
Posted by Forestboy1978 on 29 Jan. 2017,14:44
Sooo,,,

After having multiple annoying things going wrong I've decided instead of getting another vehicle, to upgrade my van.

I don't like this idea cos I spent nearly 2 weeks rigging my van for tools but I've decided on an Iveco Daily which has the capacity to pull 3.5 tons.

Posted by rxbren on 29 Jan. 2017,20:09
That the 35c15 ? What year did they start towing 3.5t
Posted by Forestboy1978 on 30 Jan. 2017,19:03
Quote (rxbren @ 29 Jan. 2017,19:09)
That the 35c15 ? What year did they start towing 3.5t

Not sure mate.

Went into a van place today. They offered £5000 for mine. Said they'd keep an eye for what I'm looking for and phone me.

I might get 7k for it private but I'd lose the VAT if I'm correct on that. Not sure but if they can give me a decent price on a vehicle then I might take their 5k.

If the van can carry on board 1.5 tons is it legal to load with a micro digger or mini dumper?

Posted by michaelthegardener on 30 Jan. 2017,19:44
what van have you got now ?  I was looking at mine today thinking how can it be rusting allready at just 6 :p  but it is a transit   maybe its time for a newer one but id prob just get the same and whats the point my private plate makes it look 15 years old anyway :D
Posted by rxbren on 30 Jan. 2017,20:11
If vat and van bought through your work when you sell it on you add the vat to the sale
Posted by Forestboy1978 on 30 Jan. 2017,20:29
Quote (michaelthegardener @ 30 Jan. 2017,18:44)
what van have you got now ?  I was looking at mine today thinking how can it be rusting allready at just 6 :p  but it is a transit   maybe its time for a newer one but id prob just get the same and whats the point my private plate makes it look 15 years old anyway :D

I've got a 5 year old vivaro SWB 90ps with tow bar, rear view camera and racked to the max. 44250 miles currently. Yours for 7k with a set of 5 spoke alloys and the original wheels with tires brand new on them. Rear door ladder and 1k roof rack.

Couple of minor scratches and a dent under left arch.

Rear view camera has stopped working though. But it's fitted. Probably a wiring issue.

Posted by Forestboy1978 on 30 Jan. 2017,20:29
Quote (rxbren @ 30 Jan. 2017,19:11)
If vat and van bought through your work when you sell it on you add the vat to the sale

I'll try and work that out when I'm less drunk

Was not vat registered when bought. Am vat now

Posted by lemoncurd1702 on 30 Jan. 2017,21:13
Vat on purchases made before registration on items such as vans machinery etc can be reclaimed as far back as four years before registration.
I think you need to do this soon after registration, best have a word with your accountant if you use one.
Mine seemed to be unaware of this and it could have lost me a lot of reclaimed Vat if I hadn't found out myself.

Posted by michaelthegardener on 30 Jan. 2017,21:16
Quote (Forestboy1978 @ 30 Jan. 2017,19:29)
Quote (michaelthegardener @ 30 Jan. 2017,18:44)
what van have you got now ?  I was looking at mine today thinking how can it be rusting allready at just 6 :p  but it is a transit   maybe its time for a newer one but id prob just get the same and whats the point my private plate makes it look 15 years old anyway :D

I've got a 5 year old vivaro SWB 90ps with tow bar, rear view camera and racked to the max. 44250 miles currently. Yours for 7k with a set of 5 spoke alloys and the original wheels with tires brand new on them. Rear door ladder and 1k roof rack.

Couple of minor scratches and a dent under left arch.

Rear view camera has stopped working though. But it's fitted. Probably a wiring issue.

im tempted but Im used to the height in the back of the  transit now  :p   don't think I can ever go back to a standard roof allways liked the vivaro/traffic/ Nissan whatever they called it  :D  so nice to drive compaired to the transit
Posted by rxbren on 30 Jan. 2017,22:41
Better off with a transit........

Ford make the best commercial vans/pickups.

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