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Topic: Best way to move a mini digger about< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
williams
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Posted: 16 Jan. 2014,21:13 QUOTE

I'm in the process of buying a mini digger however I'm really stumbling when it comes to how the hell I can legally move it about.

Obvious thing is a trailer. Problem is my sprinter van will tow just 2t. I do have an older sprinter as well and that does tow 2.8t.
Problem is that a mwb sprinter and trailer isn't going to be easy to back up to my house, due to access. I would also have to do my trailer licence as I just missed it in 97.

Then I thought, get a tipper, an old shape sprinter (02 reg) does take decent weight. I could get some ramps and put it on the back, nice and easy to reverse up, no trailer licence stuff.

But then I struggle to determine payload for these, my sprinter will take about 1.5t legally, I assumed a tipper would be lighter but it appears it may not be.

The machine I want is a kubota u17-3 which is 1.7t

So I'm pretty stuck here aren't i? Is a pick up best? And get a tipper trailer?

It feels like its bloody hard to progress, so much red tape and rules. A 7.5t tipper would be perfect but of course I need the o licence, that's not a problem, the paying someone to constantly maintain it is.

Any suggestions appreciated.


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dig dug dan
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Posted: 16 Jan. 2014,23:02 QUOTE

You have little choice I am afraid. There is no pickup under 3500kg that can legally carry that weight machine, plus fuel, driver, ramps etc!
Your only option is a trailer, and you would need at least a 2.5 tonne plant trailer. Then you would need to do your trailer test, plus up the insurance for towing.
its a minefield, and I am glad I never had to do the test. I can have a gross trainweight of 7000kg and no test needed!


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williams
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Posted: 16 Jan. 2014,23:36 QUOTE

It really is a minefield!

I think I'll have to get a trailer and put it on the old sprinter and just try and back it up as well as I can. Practice makes perfect they say :D

I've been mulling over getting a digger for a while now and it makes sense, I just hope it makes sense after all the aggro to get one.

I'll have to check my insurance as well, I suppose there's another line of unexpected payment to come out.....


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mickg
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Posted: 17 Jan. 2014,00:10 QUOTE

I went through the same scenario last year and yeah its a mine field if you want to stay legal

I covered everything from 7.5 tonner, a pick up even buying a land rover discovery so I could tow the digger to the job but ended up putting a tow bar on my Merc sprinter, I weighed the van full of stuff I use on a regular basis and the Takeuchi tb016 digger, 3 buckets and trailer and it came in at 300kg under the MAM (maximum allowed mass)

I phoned my insurance company to check if I needed to update my policy, it was not required but the policy now has a note on it saying I tow a trailer

the bonus in having a trailer is I am now legal to tow 2 bulk bags where as before putting one bag in the rear of the van took me over the weight limit

the first few days of getting the trailer it was quite daunting when your trying to reverse back into a tight spot, I messed up plenty of times then it just clicks like learning to ride a bike and now  can back up into the tightest of places and get it right most times

currently looking at buying an aluminium drop side tipper what can carry 1800kg (two bulk bags) and tow the trailer carrying 2 more bulk bags or the digger and still be legal, this makes it more cost effective than having the 7.5 ton wagon which can only carry 4 ton max


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msh paving
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Posted: 17 Jan. 2014,07:47 QUOTE

why do you buy bulk bags, dont you go to quarry and get it buy the ton,  MSH :)

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GB_Groundworks
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Posted: 17 Jan. 2014,08:21 QUOTE

You can easily get 7-10 on a 7.5 ton wagon lol

I see them all the time with their tow bars barely off the ground

All joking aside it is funny when you go the the aggregate yard and have 4 ton of stone in a 7.5 ton tipper looks half full which then makes you asses what you put in it on dig out.

You'll get the hang of backing up, a reversing camera is great for hooking the trailer up especially with a loaded trailer.

I'm in the process of swapping all our trailer lights over to led units

Mick how you finding the taki, they've got nice smooth hydraulics but on the bigger ones just feel a bit tight and sparse on the cabs. Giving our new kx016-4 it's first outing tomorrow see how she performs.


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lutonlagerlout
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Posted: 17 Jan. 2014,08:28 QUOTE

we also looked into this and for us it doesnt make sense
you need a yard , o license,tacos,
plus as anyone here knows it makes you an instant target for the pikeys
the machine driver we use has an old john lewis mercedes  lorry with ramps, and it works out more cost effective to pay him when needed
I have to say though there are odd occasions when a machine would be dead handy
LLL


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williams
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Posted: 17 Jan. 2014,10:57 QUOTE

Thanks for all the replies, very helpfull!

Looks like I'll initially have to use the old 311 sprinter, she's a good old girl, had her 7 years!
I've also been told that a decent trailer makes all the difference when towing and they aren't that hard to reverse, I just had memories of being about 18 trying to back up my old bosses trailer and ending up in a terrible state haha, iirc once he actually had to call his step dad out to reverse it for him :p

From what I gather you don't need a no licence as it's for normal buisness use,it's only if it's hire or reward, very grey area though.

Mickg : what sprinter do you have and what the tipper your looking at getting?


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mickg
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Posted: 17 Jan. 2014,11:55 QUOTE

Merc 311 on a 58 plate, used to have the old shape 52 reg  and what was a work horse that van was

if i had my time again i would get tbe 313, its the same van, engine etc but can carry more weight due to the engine management being on different settings

Looking at transit ally drop side tipper as it can carry more than the steel tippers, other vechicle i looked at is the iveco or isuszu as the MAM is higher hence you can carry and tow more but not need a operators licience

If i put 2 ton on the trailer it takes me over the allowed weight hence it has to be in bulk bags and the other reason its bagged is we don't have any quarries in our area anymore


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mickg
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Posted: 17 Jan. 2014,12:04 QUOTE

The taki is awesome Giles, i hired a similar machine for 5 years which is why i bought the Takeuchi 

Not bothered with it not having a cab as the first thing i do is open the door and lift the front glass up and out of the way so you can comunicate with the banksman


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williams
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Posted: 17 Jan. 2014,19:33 QUOTE

Cheers mick.
I've got a 313 59 reg mwb sprinter and the mam is 5500kgs, however when I looked into it and asked mercedes they say I can only tow 2 ton.
Now is that because they are allowing 3.5t for the main van and then 2t for towing getting to the 5.5t figure. Or are they saying they are just capable of towing 2t and no more regardless of the main vans weight. If you look online you can find where it says rated at 2t for towing.
So it's interesting to hear you've basically got the same combination as what I'll have.

Now the old van is a 54 reg 311mwb. This is rated to iirc 6300kgs and is rated to 2.8t for towing. This is why I assumed I could only really tow with the older van, which seems pretty backwards to me.

I think I'll get an 8x5 ifor tipper trailer so will be killing a few birds with one stone by doing this :)  I've been putting it off for years but it makes sense to have a machine, I've got everything else, infact 2 of everything else, just no digger or tipper.

Love the sprinters though, my old one is a proper tool, I've had it 7 years and it's still strong on 160k shame they rust though :( even the 59 reg is getting a few bits here and there :(


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msh paving
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Posted: 17 Jan. 2014,19:36 QUOTE

Dont forget  to know the trailer weight as this is part of towing capacity

MSH :)


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tarmal & Co
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Posted: 17 Jan. 2014,20:09 QUOTE

as soon as you go over 3500kg you need to have operators licence, and tachograph fitted. So anyone thinking there legal with say a transit van and a one and half ton digger and trailer are well over the limit. I have a seven and a half ton tipper and legally can only tow 750kg trailor behind and  I am having to do my trailer license at the moment.

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dig dug dan
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Posted: 17 Jan. 2014,20:22 QUOTE

Quote
as soon as you go over 3500kg you need to have operators licence, and tachograph fitted. So anyone thinking there legal with say a transit van and a one and half ton digger and trailer are well over the limit. I have a seven and a half ton tipper and legally can only tow 750kg trailor behind and  I am having to do my trailer license at the moment.


not so. if its your own plant and tools/materials anyway. as soon as you hire the digger to someone, you then need a tacho, but not an operators licence.
You only need an operaters licence if the VEHICLE is rated above 3500kgs, excluding a trailer.


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msh paving
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Posted: 17 Jan. 2014,20:26 QUOTE

Dont forget  to know the trailer weight as this is part of towing capacity

MSH :)


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mickg
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Posted: 17 Jan. 2014,20:28 QUOTE

Should your 3.5 ton van be fitted with a tacho

The law states that the weight of the trailer must be added to the gross vehicle weight of the van.

So if the van has a gvw of 3.5 tonnes and it’s towing a two-tonne trailer, the vehicle effectively weighs 5.5 tonnes and must have a tachograph – and you’ll need an O-licence to operate it too.

There are exceptions to this rule and the main two that may apply are:

If the vehicle is not being used for hire and reward
If the vehicle doesn’t travel more than 50km (33 miles) from its base.

What is not Hire or Reward
You are NOT usually operating for Hire or Reward when you carry goods you own or goods you have used or will use in the course of your business.

Changes to operator licensing rules for vehicles under 3.5 tonnes towing small trailers

because most of us here travel from A to B in the course of our day then its classed as "NOT" for hire or reward therefore we do not need an operators licence or need to use a tacho


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williams
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Posted: 17 Jan. 2014,20:44 QUOTE

That's right, it took me a while to determine what these laws mean but ultimately if your using the machine yourself in your own buisness then you don't need the o licence, looking at the above it appears you don't need a tacho either.

I could well fit one of these to the dash in any case :p
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taco

What do you think mickg about what I mentioned above about the owing in the new shape sprinter? I'm guessing yours pulls the trailer and machine ok? The main thing I'm worried about is safety, don't get me wrong I don't want any fines but I do want it to be safe, sadly the red tape small buisness is up against isn't necessarily sensible or about safety, it's more about, well nothing it appears.


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tarmal & Co
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Posted: 17 Jan. 2014,21:29 QUOTE

If you check on the government site about operaters licenses it will explain that you do need operaters license for van and trailer. I have a restricted operaters license and I only do my own work but still have to have one.
You can register to be exempt from tachos if you don't go any further than 50km from your base.It gets very complicated to try and stay legal


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dig dug dan
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Posted: 17 Jan. 2014,21:30 QUOTE

i think mickg posted the relevant link

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GB_Groundworks
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Posted: 17 Jan. 2014,22:56 QUOTE

There was a piece in earthmovers a while back that covered most of this, on Sunday ill dig it out and see if I can scan it in.

Sure they said 60 mile radius of base moving a digger which you then use is tachometer exempt as your not a professional truck driver you are a digger driver who just moved the machine to the job. Might have been specific to utilities though.


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ruler

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